Here’s How You Focus Your Revenue Teams in 2024

I don’t think there’s anything more important than just understanding what it’s actually like for the buyer and what they do because that’s really what marketing and sales organizations have to work with. We’ve got to enable buyers to do what they’re gonna do. And, I think we’re past the time when we think we can make them do something other than what they wanna do. This is revenue makers, the podcast by six cents, investigating successful revenue strategies that pushed companies ahead. Alright, Simon. Are you ready to talk revenue? When am I not, Adam? Who is on the show today? Well, we have got a special treat today. We actually have Carrie Cunningham, one of six cents own, who runs our research and thought leadership teams. He’s formally from Forrester and serious decisions, but I’m not gonna go any further on his bio because his background is Pretty amazing. And he can tell us all about some of the things he’s done in the past, the one he’s been up to here at six cents. I love Carrie, and he and his team have just released in mind blowing for it around BB buying cycles and patterns, and the findings have some pretty important implications for sellers and marketers. Yeah. The the I think that there’s data there that’s gonna make you take a pause and rethink how you approach some accounts and and how sellers and Really, the entire marketing team is going after in participating in a buying journey versus the selling journey, which we’re gonna learn about as two very different things that have very different timelines attached. Them. So we’ve actually put a link to carrying team’s entire report inside of the show notes. So feel free to click on that while you’re listening or take a look at it later. But with that, you ready to dive into this thing? Let’s see what it Mister Cunningham, why don’t you, would, like, introduce yourself because we probably can’t do your credentials justice. I would love for you to tell us tell the audience. Probably most of them know who you are anyway, some made, but if they do, it’s because I spent a long time at serious decisions and and Forrester as an analyst which was awesome. That was eight years leading up to the couple of years I’ve spent at six cents. So as an analyst, with serious decisions in forestry, you have to see literally hundreds of b to b marketing, revenue engines, which is fascinating, was able to be part of developing the demand unit waterfall and the successor to that before I left. So that was all great. If anybody’s watching the video, probably tell right away that wasn’t my first job out of college. So I Oh, Carrie. Second. I have been around for a little while. At one point, my hair was this color when I was in my thirties, but that was something I did on purpose. But in any case, I’ve been in b to b marketing slash sales since a very long time ago. And, virtually, all of it in the San Francisco Bay Area working with tech companies on my entire career. I’ve worked with many, many hundreds of tech companies over the years. So That’s what I bring to the table a whole bunch of experiencing a whole bunch of things, both sides of the fence, sales and marketing. And I love that you are a practitioner of that now. Right? So full disclosure, Carrie and I worked together before either of us was at six cents. I would often go to Carrie and just number one to validate that my crazy hair brained ideas of what I wanted to do where Right? Or were at least, you know? The answer was always yes. Reasonable. Yeah. And the answer was always yes. So, yeah, he was the great, you know, way I would then take those out. I love Carrie. So I love Carrie. And he helped me build many a business case internally because we needed that external validation, but He always brings just a really important perspective to it. It’s rooted in reality. It’s rooted in the trends you’re seeing. It’s rooted in the industry standard, like the b to b industry standard, which is what I so appreciated about every conversation we had. And, Carrie, you now lead research, it’s extends. Do you wanna talk to us a little bit about what’s so exciting about that role? Yeah. It’s really cool. It’s the same job. I had at serious decisions in Forrester, essentially. So we do a bunch of survey research. We’ll talk about some of that today We’re also starting to dip into data from our platform, which is super exciting. And we’ll talk about kind of motivations for some of the things that we’ve been doing in the research, but the main thing is we really wanna understand how buying and selling works in b to b, and it’s astonishing the step to which people assume stuff that they don’t know. And as a general principle for me and life, I hate assuming stuff that I don’t. Go. It really, really makes me nervous. But we’ve been stuck with that and we’d be forever. So what I get to do is put together surveys and research projects to try to figure out some of the answers to things that we think we know, but maybe we don’t. And that’s what we’ve been able to do over the last about almost two years that we’ve been doing this. And so it’s a lot of fun. And then the other thing about being in six cents and not in that analyst firm is I got frustrated as an analyst having to say, well, that’s the problem. Now I’ve convinced you that that’s the problem you have solve it. Now I have to tell you that there are lots of different options that you have to look at when I already knew before I look forrester, there was actually a best option, and I just couldn’t say that. Now I can’t. So I really like. Drummarole Creek, please. Yeah. You know, whenever I’m I’m working with somebody and I’m I’m slacking and we come up with a good idea, I’m like, wow, this is we’re like a think tank here, but I think Carrie’s actually running a think tank for us. Yeah. But the thing that’s amazing about it is that it’s a think tank that turns into, like, reality because here’s the data, here’s what it tells us, and here’s how you can go and do something So I think that’s one of the really interesting things about what we’re gonna talk about today, which is this this b to b buyer experience survey. So I guess just dive into that. What inspired the survey itself. And did you ultimately set out with a goal, a hypothesis, or did this sort of take some interesting twists and turns as you were building it. Yeah. So at base, probably nothing more important to b to b marketers and sellers than understanding what the b to b buying process is actually like. I think that that’s one of the areas where we’ve made a lot of assumptions and suppositions and guesses, but haven’t really had a lot of insight into how it actually worked. What we did was building off from work that has been done at serious decisions in Forrester they ran a thing, not forget the exact name of it, but it was very similar to the survey that we did looking at buyers and how they buy. But there were some things that I always thought were missing from that. And when I looked at that data, we weren’t able to do some of the things with it that I wanted to do, and I didn’t own that. Survey over there. I I couldn’t really impact that very much. So there were some things that we really wanted to understand clearly about how buying works. When are decisions actually made? Going back to twenty sixteen or so, back at serious decisions, we started to shed some light on the fact that the buyer’s a big group of people. Now in some senses, everybody’s known that forever. Everybody’s talked about buyer personas forever, and they didn’t nobody had just one. So It was kinda obvious that the buyer was a group of people, but the implications of that are massive, and they were completely ignored. For a dozen or so years. So initially, when we started to plan this, I really thought, okay. Well, let’s just make sure everybody knows that when b to b buyers buying. It’s a lot of people who do a lot of stuff. Look at a lot of this content and have a lot of interactions. And then we found out a lot of other things along the way. That we’ll talk about today that I think your account number is shattering in a lot of senses about how buyers buy. So There were a bunch of surprises, that we found out and it would have been perfectly happy if we had come up with data that looked a little different than it did. But That was it. I don’t think there’s anything more important than just understanding what it’s actually like for the buyer and what they do because that’s really what marketing and sales organizations have to work with. Right? You’ve gotta enable buyers to do what they’re gonna do. And I think we’re past the time when we think we can make them do something other than what they wanna do. Yep. And so many teams forget to put that prospect at the center of it all. And so I love that you’re starting right there. You mentioned there were some surprises along the way. What were some of those findings from your research that just really contradicted what your initial hypothesis was. So to get there, I’ll walk through a string of numbers, a string of stats that we found. A couple were sort of expected, but then there’s some unexpected things about it, even. So kind of the main narrative is that one Bying takes a long time. The average buying process that we found across nine hundred and something folks was eleven months. And I think that sounds very typical for a b to b kind of enterprise solution. And, of course, there are factors that influence how long or short that is The thing that influences it the most was very surprising. It’s a head slapper once you hear it, but I’ll tell you the second thing that influences now is the cost of So everybody understands that the cost of a solution makes it the buying process love or shorter. That’s absolutely True. And then we found that buyers say they have their first direct interactions with sellers at about seventy percent of the way through the journey. You know, that is absolutely not news. That is stuff that we were saying back at serious decisions and stuff everybody said for a long time. Sometimes a finding that isn’t new is really good because it tells you that, oh, okay. Well, this confirms what folks have been saying. The people who took my survey aren’t out of left field. They’re not some completely different base alien or something who’s doing something else. I’m happy with that. I’m happy that we found that They said the same thing everybody else has been saying for a long time. There’s a bit of a surprise in there. We looked at the different roles in the buying process. Were you a champion? Were you an influencer? The final the financial ratifier or something like that? And we looked at levels in the organization. So were you a c level person? We had some of those, or were you somebody was an individual contributor? And one of the fascinating things was the answer to those questions does not change how and when you say you get involved with sellers. It’s still within the margin of error That’s seventy percent. Interesting. Now I would have been very happy if we found financial ratifiers coming at eighty percent. Right? Who cares? They don’t get involved till later. Or if we had found that manager level people get involved earlier because they’re setting up meetings and things that the more senior folks don’t wanna do, That is just not what we found. They all say the same thing. And what that tells you is really, really important. But that tells you is when a buying team starts interacting with a selling team, they do it as a team. There’s no difference in time for when they get involved. And that, I think, starts to uphold some of the things I’m gonna say next. So we know seventy percent and everybody’s getting involved at the same time. And then we asked, so when you did have that first interaction, did you initiate that interaction, or was that initiated by a seller you responded to something? This number surprised me. Eighty three percent of the time, buyers said that they initiated the interaction. So I think it’s absolutely gonna be the case that a a lot more people were receiving emails and phone calls and whatever from sellers and just not respond. Right? It doesn’t mean that they’re out in the desert and nobody’s seeing them. But it means that when they engage, they choose when they engage and they do it on their own. Terms. So that’s eighty three percent saying, I decided when we looked at the other seventeen percent. People have said, nope. My first interaction was responding to somebody. And we asked, well, when did that happen? Seventy percent. So no So you know, whether you’re responding or reaching out, if you happen to be the right person reaching out to that prospect at the right time, they’re gonna respond. What you reaching out doesn’t do is change when they do it. Doesn’t change that at all. That, I think, takes a moment to sync yet. We won’t probably pause for a couple of minutes and let people ponder that now. There should be a ponder that afterward. Let that sink you. The fact that you’re reaching out to folks does not change when they start interacting. With you. That’s not what we expect. Right? I don’t think to hear. But then the really most important thing is When buyers initiate contact, we asked them, did you start with the ultimate winning vendor? Did you start somewhere else on your list of vendors. Eighty four percent of the time, they said they started. Their first conversation was with the vendor that ultimately won the business. So I think when you put a few of these things together, you could interpret that last number as being Well, if I get to talk to them first, then I’ll get to convince them that ours is the right way and they’ll go with us. But to believe that, you would have to believe that after eight months of research, a buying team, heard something from a sales rep and thought we’ll throw that away. Let’s just do what they said. You know? And that seems pretty unlikely to be. And then when you look at the last number in the string is we asked them at the time of that first contact, how much of your requirements were set, were they totally set, kinda set, etcetera. Seventy eight percent said they were either totally set or almost entirely set at the time that they first interacted. And that tells you that they didn’t just change their minds and what they wanted and go with whatever the first sales rep set. They already knew what they wanted. They initiated contact when they had come to a decision about which vendors they wanna talk to and they put somebody at the top of that list. And it looks like confirmation bias takes over from that point forward because they just don’t change their minds If they’ve decided what they want already, it’s kinda your deal to lose. And if you’re not already that vendor, you’re going to find it very difficult to get over that. A seller might be hearing this and they wanna just, like, kinda go in the cornering and hide. It’s like, what do you do? What’s something that you order strategies to become that first vendor? Like, what do you need to be doing? And this may just be marketing one zero one. You need to be top of mind when somebody’s ready to engage or when they have lingually on. And then is there something to be doing earlier to not only be the one they’re gonna contact, but actually be able to influence even, like, they’re building their requirements. But, like, where do you start to sort of just, like, I’m scared. Please help me kinda. So, you know, first on your point about sales reps. I’ve been talking to as many sales reps as will talk to me about this because it is meaningful about how this works. He’d be to be And I wanna make sure that we were going out in the public saying stuff that I mean, I I’m perfectly happy to throw a lip match into things. That’s that’s fine. That’s kinda why I exist. But I wanna make sure that it’s responsible and also what are the other ways to think about how does a sales rep receive this information? What do they think about? When I first introduced this to salespeople, PDR leaders, The first response is okay. Wait a minute. So you’re saying what I do doesn’t matter. And it seems that way at first. But when you talk to sales reps about what they actually do, you know, most of the time, they’re not actually talking. Teach prospects live and prospects aren’t responding. What they’re doing a lot of times and not just BDRs, but even AEs. I gotta talk to one of our best AEs who handles strat accounts. He’s working with the biggest companies in the world. And what he does most of the time is map organizations and make sure that all of the people in them who could be buyers know us, have content that they need from us, know that we’re available. They get invitations too. And then we’ll talk about a bunch of this stuff. They get invitations to events. And communities and to dinners and all kinds of things. So they’re constantly working accounts in ways that aren’t necessarily part of the buyers buying journey if you will. Right? So they’re they’re continually interacting with their accounts, but not necessarily getting a two way dialogue with those folks. So I think for salespeople, we’ll dive into it a little more. There’s a slightly different way that you’re gonna think about what you’re doing, and I think this is particularly true for VDRs. For marketing, it’s phenomenal. Okay. Your job is really really, really important, and maybe you feel a little more pressure right now. And that would be okay. Yeah. Can we just unpack that a bit? Cause agree with everything you said around the selling side, but huge implications on the marketing side. And maybe to Adam’s point, we’re not doing anything terribly different, but I think there’s just an importance that we need to be assigning to these very top of funnel activities that are ensuring that we’re in front of the right prospects. We’re guiding them along that buyer’s journey. We’re speaking to them in a more meaningful way. We’re making sure that they have what they need to build that business case and get it to that point of they know what they need and they know who they’re gonna be talking to. Right? So that That’s a big responsibility. Yeah. It starts with understanding your prospect, understanding the ICP, understanding the pain points, and then even more importantly understanding the timing of what to be talking Yeah. To, with them and when. That becomes everything because we can talk about, and we will talk about all of the things that you can do more of and do better now that you know this. But none of the things we’re gonna talk about are possible unless you have a very clear idea of the set of accounts that you want to be selling to And that’s just baseline because there’s still gonna be way more of those than you could possibly apply a really meaningful treatment to unless I don’t know any companies who have that kind of budget that could do that. I mean, they just don’t. So you have to not only know really clearly which are the accounts, but which of those accounts are in some stage of a buyer journey. And I think what this data tells us is we tend to even focus more on the end of the buying journey who’s close to decision making and purchasing all of that stuff. What all of the data we just saw said is If you’re holding your bullets for that end of the spine process, it’s too late. You’ve gotta get the job done much earlier in the process. There’s gonna be some scale depending upon what size your addressable market is, but you’ve gotta be able to see which accounts are in those early stages of the journey so that you can apply your best effort to those accounts and make sure that one, anything that’s going to help them decide to choose you over somebody else is freely available to them with no friction. And so that’s part of what I think BDRs and sales reps can do is they can make sure when we see an account that is in market. Maybe they’re in second, third stage of their buyer’s journey. They’re not deep into it yet. They’re definitely not gonna take a sales call with you, but you can absolutely make sure that they have everything they need. They know where stuff is on your web site. They have the links to everything. If you have customers that they could talk to, if you have events that they could go to, if you have communities that they could belong to, Whatever it might be that you get that stuff, Martin Center, to the people inside those accounts, early in that journey, your concierge the entire experience for them, making sure that they really have whatever it is that they need. And that’s not running a campaign. That’s not having a four touch nurture. That is a more considered, more directed, more custom application aimed at accounts that are specific places. And so you can see why you can’t do that for everybody. That’s just not gonna be an option for anybody. Yeah. Just a lot there to unpack. You know, one of the things that we, at six cents, we’re always looking at multi threading into accounts. Right? So our sales team or BDR team, they’re measured and tasked on, you know, there’s an opportunity to get a meeting. You gotta go after other personas. You have to get into in front of the entire biweekly. Obviously, this your data clearly points out to the impact of the size of the buying committee on the overall process. And as that gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and we’ve talked previously about beauty inflation, our own data tells us, it takes so many touch points. You have to engage with so many more contacts every year. Someone actually knows the numbers. I’m glossing over them because I can’t remember them. And I’m sure and then in another year, it’s gonna require eight hundred people on a buying committee or something ridiculous. But as you talked about that strategic seller who sort of making sure everyone knows and is is getting information, how do you do that in effective way when you have twelve, eighteen people on a buyer committee across half a dozen personas in a way that’s meaningful and just doesn’t feel like going, oh, you gotta just yeah. So that that’s a big challenge. You certainly don’t have all of the answers to that. But there are some really good places to start. So first, nobody ever has content and tactics for all of the buyer personas. It would be nice. But nobody does. And most of the content that you have is probably going to answer if you’re doing a job. If you’re doing a job of supporting your champion, the ultimate decision makers, that content is going to support the other folks for the most part. And then you’ve got to ensure that those people have the content, not just the content itself, the answers to the questions, but they haven’t in a format that allows them to educate their teams internally. Now when we looked at the number of interactions that each member of a buying team is having both digital and human, there’s also surprisingly very little variability there. Yep. More senior folks have somewhat fewer interactions for the most part. But not very many. If you worry, they’re still out there slogging through people’s websites, the senior folks are never gonna fill out your form. So forget that. But they’re going to go out and look at what they can see. So that tells you you’ve gotta make it possible for those most senior people who are on your web site to see what you want them to see. When you can recognize, say, that an account is in market and those people are swarming your website, anonymously, this would suggest that you really need to be able to recognize those accounts and to do something different for and it’s not just putting their name or a picture that’s relevant to their industry on the website. I don’t think anybody really is gonna be swayed by that. But when you have an account that is cleared, they’re swarming your website anonymously. You know they’re in market because you’re using six cents. So we’re telling you that. They’re right there. Now they’ve gotta get a different treatment. We need to know who those folks are. How are we gonna get them to know? Well, how about we invite them to dinner? Or we invite them to a Hawaiian tasting or we do something that is going to let them know that we’re very interested in them and their business It’s an opportunity to engage that may not involve a sales conversation, may not involve a sales rep. Lots of those kinds of things that we need there to really bring forward in what we’re doing to enable buyers. Yeah. And what you just said, it makes sense to everyone. I think the operationalization of it and making it actually happen is where people get caught up. And there’s a lot there that tech can help with. Obviously synthesizing the signals that are out there. Obviously, making sure that there is intense data and predictive analytics to help you identify when an account that magic point. But I think the part that we didn’t talk about is making sure that as you’re providing this curated journey for your prospects, The right hand is talking to the left hand, meaning what marketing is putting in front of those accounts is what then sales has visibility to and is reinforcing when they do have that time with them. Right? Is this critical for marketing and sales to be aligned with that message? Because If marketing has done all this work to get that accounts to a point where now sales is ready to engage, we wanna make sure that that same message and conversation is reinforced. And again, I would point to then technology being able to help make sure that the singular view of that account is what marketing fees and wood sales fees. Yeah. A hundred percent. And not only that, I think in my conversation with sales and with BDR leaders, I really think there is a role for those folks plus automating a lot of the outreach as well. There is a role early in the buying cycle you know, if you talk to, you know, one of our reps who handles strategic accounts, they are in those strategic accounts all the time. Marketing is influencing those accounts all the time as well. They absolutely have to be saying the same things and talking about the same kinds of solutions. And especially when you get to bigger accounts, there’s a chance that you could be selling however many solutions your company has. Your sales rep may be interested in selling one thing. You have signals that say that they’re in market for another thing. Those things gotta get lined up otherwise. Your work and cross purposes. So that’s super, super important. The other question I have too is all these interactions all these vendors, and I think one of the other pieces you talked about was if there’s somebody else added to the consideration set. Yeah. Because if there’s another vendor added, there’s a very it seems like there’s a very specific prescriptive time extension or something that happens. It’s very specific. You talk a little bit about that and sort of like, cool. At least be the one above that before the vendor gets added. One of the surprising things that we found among the most surprising things that we found was the impact on the number of vendors, the length of buying Now think of this as the buying cycle, not the sales cycle, and those two things are really different. I’ll pause on that for a second because what we’re telling you is The selling cycle began seventy percent of the waste through the buying cycle. So if you have a five month buyer journey, that’s because your buyers been in market for nine months or looking for a solution. So, one, those two things are different. This has changed my attitude a little bit. So I’ll just I’ll copy to the fact that back at Forester a few years ago, they were talking about buyer enablement a lot. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, gotta do her thing. You know, whatever. But what this study has done is brought me face to face with just how hard it is for buying teams to make decisions. So what we saw for a buying team of average of ten people over eleven months is four thousand interactions, both with vendors and others, across that journey. Yeah. That’s a lot. Now, Adam, the question you’re asking, what happens if you add one vendor? So instead of the average of four, a vendor is evaluating five, The number of interactions goes to a closer to eight. So one vendor as almost doubles the number of interactions that a team has to have, And part of the reason it does that is because when you add one vendor, you also add two people to the buying team. So if a team’s gonna evaluate five instead of four, they add two people because it’s gonna be more work. Well, what happens to committee decision making process is when more people get involved. Right? You do it. There you are. So you go from with four vendors an average of eleven month buying cycle, five vendors is over thirteen months. That is money lost. And a lot of times, it’s just gonna be money that never materializes for anybody. And whenever you delay something a couple of months, and especially in times like this, but anytime, revenue delayed is revenue lost to a great extent. The good news is it works the same way in the reverse. And so a buyer evaluating just three vendors, their buying cycle is gonna be just nine months. With many fewer interactions. That decision making process is so much easier. And one way to think about it is it’s the same thing at all the consumer behavior research. There’s the paradox of choice. When a consumer has too many things to choose from, what they do is they don’t buy anything. I can’t decide when you walk out of the grocery store or whatever. The same thing happens in b to b. It’s just really hard. Your buyer is doing their due diligence and they’re really, really doing it. They told us that they have the same number interactions with the non winning vendors as they do with the winning vendors. They’re working hard. We need to respect that, make everything as available to them as possible. And then we could talk about if you know that more vendors is gonna drag this thing out. How do you as a b to b provider help your buyer minimize that list of vendors that they’re looking at? Yeah. That’s I think something that we’re gonna have to spend some time on. And I think there’s a real direct implication particularly for the sellers. We talked so much about marketing. Marketing’s the one doing the selling in that first seventy percent, but the implication for the sellers, and maybe you haven’t done this research yet, Carrie, but What would you say to a seller who is starting to engage with a prospect now and actively in conversation? Does it make sense for them to bring up? A couple of the specific vendors that the prospect should be talking to, or do we we recommend that they don’t talk about it at all? Well, it’s too late to do much about it then. Right? So your buyer will have gone through seventy percent of their buying journey by the time that conversation happens. So, one, if you’re a seller or BDR and you have your first conversation with a prospect, they will have chosen when that’s gonna happen. And you should ask them, were we the first vendor that you contacted? Because the answer, yes. You can get up on your chair and clap, if the answer’s no. Yes. Then depending upon how important that account is for your company, you have to decide how to prioritize efforts. You’re in the game, which is great. You’re not out of the game, but you don’t have much of a chance. You’re down by thirty and it’s the fourth quarter. Your chances are not great there. But and here’s the thing that I think is gonna require some nuance. So where we really need to eliminate vendors is way back when buyers are starting their juries. Like, if we I mean, truly, if you wanna help your buyer have a more efficient better buying experience, help them understand which vendors not to be looking at. Right? And I don’t think probably publishing these vendors, don’t look at them is gonna be great. Probably gonna have to go about it a different way. One way I could think of is if you’ve got a wave or you’ve got a Magic Quadrant or you’ve got whatever you’ve got in your industry that says you’re like this set of vendors. Then circle that set of vendors and and have that be content that all of your prospects get that are very early in their journey so that they understand Here’s the two or three other guys max that we should go look at, but you don’t need to bother with all of these other ones around the periphery. Know if you were a different kind of company, maybe they’d be good for you, but you should be looking at these two. That’ll work sometimes, not that often. Buyer guides are something that companies have done for a long time. So what should you be thinking about? How do you wanna go about setting your requirements for this purchase? By the time you talk to them, it’s gonna be too late. That’s gotta happen early. So I think we could be entering the golden age of the buyer guide and how you help your buyers Think about their process and set their requirements. All of those things are gonna happen outside of your conversations with them. For those bigger accounts, I think your AEs should be in there. When there are signals that that account is in market, they need to get in there They need to figure out who the people are who would be involved in the buying journey if they don’t know already and make sure that those people have all of the content that we just talked about and whatever else you have. Maybe even just a personal message, say, hey, you may not wanna chat with us about this yet, but you’re in the market for what we do with it. Great. Probably ought to be looking at x y z vendor and and x y z vendor, and that’s what most of our customers look at. Whatever more nuanced better way of doing that would be, but some way of letting your potential customers know that they don’t need to look at seven different vet obviously, review sites and waves and magic quadrants and so forth are always important. But now it’s almost like human nature, you’re gonna look at the top. I’m gonna start at the top. So getting yourself at the top, there’s now a clear data to say, yeah, do it. And you really wanna be there. So that’s and again, it’s also, I think, to the content marketers out there, you are job secure because there is plenty of content to be developed. So, it’s always seems to be the game. So we’re coming towards the end of of this Carrie. And there’s so much to unpack here. So much great data. So for those listening, if you take a look at the show notes, we have a link directly to the full report It’s beefy. It’s engaging. It’s it’s really, really, really powerful stuff. But before we end, we have our tradition, although as we are in our first season, but we’re getting there in a number of episodes. Ask the same question to all of our guests, which is what is the most ridiculous thing that you’ve been asked to do in your career either positive or negative. So it could have been something wildly crazy, but it resulted in something amazing. Or most ridiculous, at least, that you’ve ever had and you’re like, I didn’t do it. Asked to do or did? Have you asked if you told me or did or even did? Actually, did. Yeah. Why not? There is a difference between those two things. Done. Sure. Let’s see. I’m pretty sure that curling with customers in Montreal was about the most ridiculous thing. I don’t understand why. Because of your skills, your curling skills. Zero curling skills. One, the sportive, the sportive, it’s interesting. But, you know, it’s really, really cold up there. So I’ve I spent half my time going to Montreal for about five years. I lived in San Francisco and in Montreal. And in San Francisco, in the wintertime, sixty Montrial, sixty below. And these people wanted us to go stand inside on ice in the middle of winter one, we could have been doing something else, anything else. And we did that because it was a tough thing. That was That was one of them I think that stands out for me. I’m sure other people have more ridiculous things. And maybe I’ve been, somewhat fortunate, but Well, and maybe Pete, there’s plenty. But I’m Canadian, Carrie. There’s plenty of us who actually love curly. Yeah. You know what? It actually looked like an okay thing to do, but just for this California guy to be going to stand around on frozen ice after a work day when I could have been doing something else Yeah. Alright. It was not. It was not. There were a couple of things back at serious decisions with that involved the bright green bow ties and and other things. But for the most part, I I’ve been relatively, I mean, it’s relatively safe. Yeah. Yeah. You know, well, Carrie, I learned something every time we chat. Thank you so much for the time. Here. Appreciate it. Amazing. My pleasure. Thank you so much. You’ve been listening to revenue makers. Do you have a revenue project you were asked to execute that had wild success? Your story with us at six cents dot com slash revenue. We might just ask you to come on the show. And if you don’t wanna miss the next episode, be sure to follow along on your favorite a guest app.