Seamlessly Transitioning to Account Based Marketing

We’ve all been doing this for a while. I made my bonus many years based on my cold calling programs for my appointment setting programs at the time. Those are gone. And we’re still kind of clinging to them in some ways because, you know, we know that setting the BDRs off to make calls is what does generate engagement opportunity, but that is not how buyers want to buy why when you succeed, it’s because you got lucky some cops. Yeah. More than that tactic is actually what’s creating demand in the market. This is revenue makers, the podcast by six cents, investigating successful revenue strategies that pushed companies ahead. Simon, you know what? This is kind of a big day. This is after our QBR, and we’re gonna call this the beginning of season two. Revenue makers. Can you believe that season two? We’re growing up, Adam. We may introduce a villain this season. I’m kidding. But for the beginning of season two. And, of course, there’s a broken record. I always talk about how great our guests are, but we have a great guest as always. Today we have Dominic Colasante, who is the CEO of two x marketing. Two x is a marketing as a service agency that helps Organization sort of bring in additional talent and headcount to run programs, especially account based marketing, and we’re gonna have sorts of different names for it in today’s session. But he’s got some really great actionable tips on how to make the transition, how to get sales on board. There’s so much here I was taking notes. Oh, same. And, you know, he comes from experience because he was a CMO facing these problems, and he’s like, I gotta go fix it. And so the model that they’ve put in place, the ability to reduced costs and increased impact. I mean, who doesn’t want that? Yeah. And he’s built a model in a big way to about a thousand employees in his organization. It’s massive. So really providing some amazing support and some free actionable advice for our listeners today. So let’s hop in. Let’s do it. Alright. Well, Tom, thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it looking forward to this chat. Let’s just dive in. Big meaty question. What do you see kind of as the biggest challenge that your clients face when they’re trying to make this transition? Their contact based MQLs, They’re going account based. What’s the biggest hump? I explained the softball out of the game. Why not? Right? Let’s just do it. Break the ice and jump in on it. So I think it comes down to that we’ve spent more time explaining to the revenue org why this sort of, like, old world, MQLs and the sort are bad. Then we have about the new world and why it’s better. And I think a lot of sales people agree. Like, the stuff that marketing use to send them doesn’t convert enough isn’t the kind of things they want and they want something different. I don’t know if the revenue or get large really understands what’s out there now. And intentor of it, ABM, and routing, highly engaged accounts. Like, what does that mean? What is intent data at? Where does it come from? Let’s just black box of where all the information and signals and engagement comes together and How do we really operate in a world where there’s a buying committee and there’s multi threading and we’re adding value and being helpful and we’re not just chasing contact based responders. I think it’s more of knowing where we’re going to versus knowing where we’re coming away from. And I think that’s where folks sometimes can get lost and and really look for, you know, how are we really gonna modernize? And I think that’s such a good answer because across the board, I think companies understand that the MQL isn’t the way forward or just the old way of doing things isn’t where we should continue to stay, but it’s really hard for people to figure out, okay, how do we get to that next promised land? And so that’s a good answer. I know we threw you right in there, but Dominic Colisante, tell us about yourself and what you do. Sure. Yeah. CEO of two x. A marketing as a service company. One of the fastest growing marketing service companies in the world. We grow about a hundred percent year on year about a thousand employees in the firm. My background, I’m a CMO, CMO now trapped in a CEO’s body. I’ve spent a lot of my time in tech marketing I worked at SAP for a bit, worked at Siemens, did field marketing, marketing ops, events, revenue marketing, ABM. Before we called with that, We used to call it top accounts or strategic accounts marketing. I did that for a bit, and then it was a CML. And, really, in that journey of being an operator, being a marketer, led me to create the firm that I always wanted to buy from that didn’t excel. A thousand people. We do. That’s amazing too. Really thumping. Amazing. Well, it’s been fun seeing the rocketship of your company over the years. I’d love to kind of build on Adam’s question. And I think the acronym is probably what’s causing some of this, but ABM, right, account based marketing. I think it’s almost a misnomer because There’s such an important component here around sales adoption and making it a tangible human experience for the sales team. So can you talk a little bit about how you factor that into the programs that your company is helping other firms with? Yeah. And I think you’re exactly right. And ABM is whoever created that word. It was well intentioned, and it’s become too popular to get rid of now. But it’s really account based go to market and account based experience, account based everything, and marketing and sales working together, not just marketing. It’s almost more than fifty percent sales than marketing. I think we spent a lot of time we go through this sort of changed journey and getting the organization ready to operate in an account based way, talking about the broad level, like sort of in all hands meeting. And in treating sessions and emails to our whole Salesforce or all marketing team. I don’t think we spend enough time in, like, one to one human conversations about This is what’s different for you. Or this is what’s different for this account or what’s different for this phone call we’re gonna make. And when we bring it down to a very human one to one conversation, I think we have a very different discussion of what marketing and sales are doing every day. So it’s HBM. Human based marketing is what we’re really talking about. Right? Yeah. Simon and I can we both find ourselves in a lot of times, being in where we work on customer calls, a lot. And that conversation comes up time and time again about the sales adoption. How do I get sales on board You kinda nailed it though, I think, in terms of just, like, the human side of it, because that brings it down to a level that people really could think about. I think too, like, you said in the beginning also about, like, Here’s what’s good. Like, we’re not overcoming some challenge and making a transition. It’s gonna be hard. We’re like, we’re going to the promised land, and here’s why. In that regard, when you think about some more specific tangible best practices, there’s some things that you have helped your clients do with their sales team. Because again, like, you’re obviously in marketing as a service that you’re working from that marketing side from the beginning. But, like, what are some of the things that you’re kind of saying to your clients, like, These are some best practices. These are things that are just that are really gonna help bringing them on board from the sales side. Yeah. So give me an example. So Marketing has adopted this ideology for many years now. So most of our marketing departments are generating these highly engaged accounts and then passing them over to sales. And I think in that moment, it’s where marketing you pick up the phone, have a human conversation, wear the wrap, a BDR, or a salesperson, wherever it goes, and say, let me talk to you about what I just sent to you. Like, this is what it is. This is what it means. This is where it came from. This is how this account became activated. Let me show you what you can see that data. Let me show you what data you have available so you can really see the journey and the history. This is what I think you should do with it, and this is how I might recommend you prospect. It’s not just calling to contact to request a meeting. It’s reaching out to various individuals in the account to add value and build trust and earn the chance to have a conversation. And if marketing has time, here’s some things I’ve done for you. Like, I’ve already done some research on the account. I’ve already looked at the business, here’s the buying committee that I think we should go after, by the way, two of these contacts have contact level engagement. Put together some marketing assets you might wanna use. I know they’re in this industry, so here’s three case studies from this industry. And I thought this might be helpful to you. Like, that kind of discussion, that kind of human conversation on a one to one basis, where the rep who just received this qualified account versus qualified contact based lead, they all kinda gets it, I think. They have a chance of being able to pursue this with the way you’d want them to chase it. It’s so true. And I imagine this is true that most of the folks who are reaching out to your company are marketers looking to then engage sales of course, with an account based approach. Does your company help with even some of that research, building those marketing assets do you do the trainings? Like walk us through a typical engagement like that. And and having done so many, obviously, you’ve got such a fast growing business. What are some of those common themes that just emerge as they’re always gonna help drive the success and just make it easier? Yeah. And what we do is we build the engine that powers executing this marketing work at a best practice level. And so in the other things you’d expect, like we’re generating content, we’re writing campaigns. We’re using all the tech that you’ve bought. We’re activating the market. We’re generating counts that warrant the thresholds being crossed. And then we’re providing, we call it an ABM researcher, a resource to really be like a concierge of this lead or new lead or engaged account, and then get it to a place where the rep can be highly successful at converting it And then we also provide support around reporting and analytics. And for us, like, all of those resourcing is in the managed service model that we bring. And so it’s you need all those pieces equally. It’s just as important to have someone make that phone call to the rep as I just said as it is to have content. Right? It’s just as important to run a play out just as important to figure out who’s high intent and who you’re gonna market the campaigns, which campaigns are going to that account. I talk about it like I, a car. And if you’re missing one piece, you’re missing that conversion conversation or you’re missing that enablement for sales, you kind of like a car with no tires. It’s got an engine, it’s got a chassis, it’s got nice seats as a radio, steering wheel, but it’s missing the tires and wheels. And therefore, I can’t achieve the goal. You need to have all those pieces working in concert to be able to really go somewhere with an ABM function. And why do you feel that it’s so hard for so many companies to do that because again, they’re all very well intentioned. They all know they need to make the change. Why is it such a difficult transition? What is expensive to have capabilities to do all of that? Whether we have a model that allows you to get it for a very interesting economic basis. But I think there’s a bit of a belief as well that take this new ideology, we’ll give it to my head of demand gen. They’re amazing. They’ll figure it out. Right? And you’ve given this huge mission to, like, one person who could never possibly have enough hours in the day, but also tends to be a generalist, right, and is knows lots of things and knows enough to be dangerous, but isn’t really an expert on the tech, isn’t an expert on enabling sales isn’t a content expert, isn’t someone who really knows deeply about how to run engaging media and test and optimize that. And so a lot of companies, I think, have focused more on, you know, giving this mission to generalists who are really busy. Who also have a day job? Right. And far enough from driven by the economic reality that if we could only have ten more marketers, it would be great and very few companies have that. And in fact, many of them have trunk their departments, but not shrunk the work at all. And so there’s more work to spread around less people, then there’s also a real shortage of tech expertise. And I think there’s so much power in platforms that are out there that can really do amazing things, but very few people are certified on them. Very few people are really deeply experienced in the ABM ones in particular and how to use those. And I think the economic model doesn’t allow us to bring in resourcing US labor’s expensive. It’s fixed cost. CFOs are allowing headcount budgets to increase. And so it almost requires a different way of thinking of how do I get all of this servicing capacity into a smaller budget and then be able to provide this whole engine and car that does all of it for our revenue growth. That makes total sense. You know, one of the things early, we talked about the human side. I was a six cents customer. I was implementing ABM before I was a professional podcaster. And one of the things that was huge sort of win for us early on because, again, like, it was the same challenge getting sales on board was, hey, let’s take a win. Let’s take an account whether it’s it went all the way to close one or if it’s just a qualified pipe and telling that story. Again, like, it’s sort of like you said, you know, calling that rep and saying, like, Here’s the qualified account. Here’s all things that you could do. Here’s some suggestions. But on the flip side of that, how do you see the best way to really celebrate the success, but also tell that story of, look at this account. We went through this process, and here we landed. Yeah. I did the same thing when I was to see about. We had this thing. We it was Jacob’s engineering. That was an opportunity that we got, but it was one of those, like, beautiful moments where marketing had thirty touches that were all amazing and And his sales got the deal, and it was this big new logo that made the quarter. But we went through and actually after we won the deal, we went back and we said, how did this thing come into our pipeline, and we looked at all these web hits, all of these paid media engagements, all this content many different people from the buying committee being activated, some by marketing, some by BDRs, some by the account executive, one by our consultant, We sort of put this entire map of, like, this is how we won Jacobs together. This was the journey of the custom. And when you see all of that, all the touch points, we had it graphic designer came in and beautified it. It was this, like, awesome slide. We used it in our marketing meetings to say, this is what marketing does. And we almost I think maybe have over calibrated in some conversations around how much pipeline, how much conversion, how much revenue, What’s our customer acquisition cost? How many six QAs? Like, we really focus on quantitative impact as marketers. But what we got to a point was folks are like I want more of the Jacobs opportunities, because I have more of those. And it became this story that people knew. And I think it’s really important when you go through This journey that you have one of those stories and sure the quantitative matters, and we have to produce ROI for sure. But the stories of people remember And the stories would help him understand what marketing’s really doing in this new world, and it totally demystifies all of this attribution problem Yeah. That is sometimes a fool’s errand to try to fix because it shows all of these things matter. The website mattered, email mattered, ads mattered, phone calls mattered, sales mattered, marketing mattered, It all mattered, but it mattered in different ways and it produced us resolved. And that’s really what we’re here to do. Yeah. It truly is a team effort and seller tends to speak an anecdote, so it’s just been a great way I’ve seen as well to just tell that story. Dom, I have to go there because you talked about attribution, you talked about data, how can data really help demystify the ABM process for teams that are really just embarking on this new approach? I feel like There’s the story, but there’s so much of, okay, companies struggle with, is this even working for us? Right? We’re all in. We’ve put the investment in place. We bought the tech. We at a team Lake two x on board to help us. How do we make sure it’s working? You’ve gotta show data for different things. I think. One, you have to use data to show how hard it is to activate a prospect. Every time we do one of these, we go through, you know, something that converted and look at how much engagement happened beforehand. It’s eye opening that people see. We had one client last week. It was fifty marketing touches first party. And about two hundred and fifty third party that happened before that thing got the opportunity. That’s powerful. I think data could help show how anonymous the journey really is and how important it is that marketing is persistent and available and active in that process. I think data can also put a little more information on helping someone understand where an account is. And, you know, there’s lots of signals being thrown off everywhere. There’s lots of places where salespeople could go to find that information. Sometimes it’s important just to have a really clean simple report that says, this is the history of the account. And this is where it is. And this is, you know, account level, contact level, many different systems all brought into one place, and this is what marketing is doing. And this is where we’re moving people from unengaged to engaged. This is how we’re seeing that. This is velocity through those programs. People believe it when they see it, but I think they don’t believe it intuitively that, you know, marketing’s gonna run all these programs and all these campaigns and do on this ATM, and then I’m gonna get this in the outside in the end. This is what’s gonna get converted to me. Them a little bit of, like, how the machines work, showing them about, you know, here’s the accounts that are here and here’s why they’re here. And here’s what we’re doing to move them over here. It’s less about the quantitative volumes and conversion rates and numbers. I think we’re pretty good at that usually as marketers. One. It’s more about the records of accounts, like health stories about accounts, show the accounts, show the contacts, show how many are in each bucket, show there were fifty last week that are here that now moved into this phase. There’s things that are moving. I think that visibility is what builds trust and credibility. Yeah. And I would add to that. I love everything you said. And what the data that you just described can do is just help with expectation setting. Like, yes, there’s a hot account. Yes, there’s a QA, but that doesn’t mean, okay, go around and they’re ready to sign a piece of paper. Like, no, it does take x number of activities and x engagements, and you’ve got a multisread into this many people. And so I love that because even just setting that expectation really helps then deliver the types of results you’re looking to get, we’ve gone as far as recently just publishing six QA to opportunity benchmarks by segment, you know, in a commercial account, it takes this many touches on average. And Strat, it’s this many and enterprise is this many because it isn’t just the one indent. It’s not like, here you go. Here’s an account. Go close to business. That’s exactly right. We kinda know it. We feel it, but how ineffective the cold calling model by itself is I’m sure we’ve all been doing this for a while. I made my bonus many years based on my call calling programs for my appointment setting programs at the time. Those are gone. And we’re still kinda clinging to them in some ways because we know that setting the BDRs off to make calls is what does generate engagement opportunity, but that is not how buyers want to buy. When you succeed, it’s because you got lucky sometimes more than Oh. That tactic is actually what’s creating demand in the market. You know, it’s interesting. I was just thinking the vernacular of this world of ABM, whatever, you know, HBM. I’m not talking about that. Actually. You’re doing the same data set every whatever the monthly weekly cadence, and you’re starting to I guess teach or get sales and everyone to talk about things differently. And I witnessed this myself, but also, like, do you see where there’s a point where Alright. We’re doing this weekly, monthly reporting on those stories. These are the new datasets that there’s that sort of moment. There’s a period where suddenly the words coming out of the mouth of the sales team and the marketing team are this new vernacular, new vocabulary. And it’s almost like this sort of natural evolution. Is it just repeatability? Is it just hammering with the same kind of data set? Or do you think there’s something else that helps to Maybe it is flicking a switch in terms of a brain of a sales team and surf with thinking about it. But, like, what can help that transition do you think? Same times, if you just have this amazingly inspirational leader that rallies the whole organization around this new religion and everybody gets it. That’s probably two percent of the time. Usually, Damn it. That does happen now. You just see some of those, and those are really exciting. We can see them. Most often, it’s that the individual wraps have found that their life is easier because of this new way of selling and marketing that they found that this thing that was routed to them was better. And they caught a meeting, and it was a real deal that they happen to just step into at exactly the right time. I think most salespeople are very open to listen to things that might help them, but they don’t really change what they do every day to make them money until they see that it works. You have to show that it works. And it’s almost like the way to get momentum and the way to This stating the obvious, like, is to have impact is to have results, is to have something that is clear and tangible that it work. And it’s really hard for the, you know, reasons I mentioned though there’s not enough resourcing to do it. There’s not enough expertise to do it. You know, there’s a bottleneck on the content side. There’s tech we don’t know how to use. There’s budget we don’t have. There’s no one with any time to do this research and brief sales, but If you can get more of that capacity and produce more impact, that’s how the change will get accelerated. And simply that it’s important that we make that reps day, more successful than it was before, and they will want more of those days. Yep. I mean, you hit on it. Right? Time is money for reps, but there’s just so many operational and resource constraints flat budgets, lower budgets, how does two x’s marketing as a service model provide a solution? And what are you seeing with some of your clients in terms of the benefit they have from working with a company like yours? Yeah. So the core idea behind our firm is that we’ve been innovating for so long as marketers, and I was like this when I was a CMO, buy a lot of tech, and really obsessing about the program budget. However, our headcount or half our budget tends to set kinda like the same spin for many years. And there’s huge issues with that organization being able to use the knee tuck follow a new ideology and have enough bandwidth to really do what they need to do. Our model is a global operating model. So we have delivery centers all around the world. Some in Southeast Asia, And what we’re able to really do is provide the managed service model for b to b marketing. So for some of our clients, manage forty percent of their marketing work. And so shift that work from insourced generalists into outsourced experts. That means that rather than having a generalist demand gen person, you might have a six cent certified marketer. You might have someone who is totally focused on Jasper enabled content creation, someone who really understands how to breathe a rep on a new opportunity that just came to them. And because of the offshore model, we’re sort of able to not only move forty percent of our clients organ of this new model, but by moving that forty percent, costs sixty to seventy percent less, which could allow us to almost double that part of the model or allow a bunch of cost savings to a car that then can fund other things, fund other programs, fund tax, fund a budget give back, and really allow the marketing budget on the org side to function very differently. And a lot of marketers have through organizational restructuring or thinking about that. And our model kind of fits in as a way of, like, you need more flexibility, more agility, more lower cost labor economics. It’s a way to bring that into the equation and give you more for less, which is what we’re all trying to do. Of course. Not to mention tap into the expertise that the team has because they’re doing this for so many other companies. And so, you know, they know this is what’s working across the board, or here’s play that works well with one company that is similar. And so I think there’s just that efficiency play and that expertise play as well. That’s exactly right. Yeah. We’ve got a team of a thousand need to be marketers innovating every day. Most of our clients don’t manage a thousand person marketing department. And so there’s all of that innovation and learning, we’ve got, you know, over seventy six time certified marketers in our team. And all the other certifications you need to expect, Mark, head of the sales force drift, expertise around ABM, AI. Those kinds of thinkers, I think, can bring real innovation into your engine. And we also do it with FTE. I think is very different than a lot of marketing service partners and agencies out there might have like a pool of people that service all their clients. We put a dedicated team on the client. And so that team immerses himself in that client’s message and brand and story and tech and go to market model So they kinda have all of the dedication of an internal FTE with the certified expertise that we’ve been able to acquire because of the economics. But then also they’re in this third party innovation center that is constantly learning new things. And you kinda get, like, all the benefits of a third party expert plus the first internal first party marketer with the offshore economics to go with it. It’s a very different way around the marketing approach. Again, having that level of expertise probably solves for this a little bit, but from a tech perspective, I think marketers have a tendency to shiny objects into him a little bit. You know, in the past, having like, oh, new tool. Right? Yeah. Yes. Marketers Whoever has the most toys wins the most. Right? Obviously, ABM in of itself, right, is a strategy that, you know, at the end of the day, could you do ABM without tech? Yes, to some extent. But how do you sort of draw that line or give some advice around, like, the next tool, the next integration, the next piece where I can put data here, put data there. Like, what is the line between necessary tech and the next toy. And then I’m assuming you see that a lot and probably may have to put the kibosh a bit on it. There’s a lot of tech out there. We’ve been we’ve been trained for biotech by the analysts, our peers. And first of all, I find The biggest issue I see is that there’s so much tech that has so much potential that all those demos that the software vendor did actually are real, but no one’s implemented it in the fullest way because they haven’t been using it. In the way it can be as Gardner. That’s a report every year. It’s scary of the state of Martech. And last year, they say thirty three percent of Martechs being used. Was fifty eight percent, like, two years ago. So we’re on the wrong the wrong trajectory. And so what I find most often is that if we could only just look at the tech that we bought and fully use it, integrate it to each other, fully bring the value out of it, put programs in market, build all the testing and optimization and reporting and analytics that they can have and use it. There’s massive gains and performance and impact from that. Sometimes you need less tech as well. In this sort of evolution, there’s lots of different tools that are now replaceable by platforms. I think the core stack that a marketing department needs is not that big. It’s a CRM. It’s a map. It’s an ABM platform. It’s a CMS It’s some source of data for contact and account information. It’s some sales automation, maybe some experience stuff on the website. That’s not a lot of tech actually in the end. You really need to run marketing. The key is using what you have. And and especially as you have platforms, six months, obviously, one of them that could do so much. Live it. Use it. Bring programs to life, build different programs, you get way more value, I think, out of using the tech that you have better than you do by buying more tech right now. Yeah. I love that. And I know your company provides health assessments, right, which is almost the place you have to start because let’s just, again, use what you’ve got but use it to its full potential. And so can you talk a little bit about the results of health checks, but also impact of two x across its client base. Yeah. Health checks to always identify a low hanging fruit. I’m excited about. And a lot of the health checks we do, we do at no cost. So we’ll commit and we’ll say, hey, this is the tech you have. This is how you’re using it. This is what’s working really well. Sometimes that gives you good momentum if you wanna go back to your CFO and say, Cindy, I am spending money in a good way. Which is valuable. Nice. Whereas always things we find of, like, hey. If you disconnected this over here, you could eliminate this whole workflow process or If you just focused more on this area, we think you can get more throughput. This is working, but it’s not being focused on enough. And we think that’s a great area of more attention. So we always identify low hanging fruit. We always identify opportunities to just grab more value without frankly spending more money, which I’m excited about because I think that’s what marketers need right now is is a way to deliver more or less. In the value that we have, all of our clients, when we do work for them, when our clients are almost exclusively in the business to business space, most of them are tech companies. A lot of them were large enterprise tech companies, other professional services, health care, manufacturing. They all both a significant reduction in cost because of our labor model. At the same time that they see an improvement in revenue, or pipeline or other marketing metric result. And we think that you could have both. You don’t have to trade cost reduction for impact we’re all trying to get more results, but we’re also getting less money and the organization needs both at the same time. And we’re able to produce amazing stories that have But, I mean, it sounds like a win win in most cases for Matt. So we’re coming towards the end of our time together. And we have a question that we like to ask every guest that we have. And it’s really what is the most ridiculous thing you’ve been asked to do in your career? And it could be something good. It could be something bad. Could be anytime in your career. We’ve heard smuggling stories. We’ve heard horrible customer experiences. For all sorts of fun things. So anything that comes to mind, it just yep. It’s a good one. I’m hit. Where’s the question they hit without the prep in the did not. This is a real Didn’t send it. The question I just received. I did not send it. Here’s the, the thing that comes to Mark. I was doing ABM for Siemens, And we were trying to win this deal at the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We sold a unified communications product, basically replacing phone systems and moving to voice over and doing actually what we do now every day. But ten years ago, that was really innovative for zooming and teaming and IMing and we wanna get this deal for the, Colorado off of Pennsylvania. And they’re like, damn, you’re the ADM guy, go figure it out. And so how to generate a very specific ABM program because they’re in their roles at that time. I was like, I wanna know where the CIO lives. So I found out where the CIO lives. This is about an hour before I wear. Drove to his house, did knock on his door, and then drove from his house to where he worked. And then we bought all the billboards on the later. And then, we don’t have a, a surge of truck that we’re doing servicing in the local Harrisburg region right around when our RFP was under consideration. So we had great brand awareness with physical you know, and we were doing all kinds of other things. We didn’t get the deal on the end, so I guess it didn’t work, but it was a really interesting marketing program. Wow. I don’t know if that’s ridiculous, genius, or somewhere in between, but that’s definitely I think it’s somewhere in between, leaning towards genius love it. I think we need to add some line items in the budget for commute based marketing. That seems to be what we’re talking about. C b f c so we have h b m, c b m. Alright. We got all that written down. So it’s good. Any interview that comes out with multiple acronyms, we know we’re in good shape. So this was so much fun. We I mean, always love hanging with you, but thanks so much. I think folks are gonna walk away with a bunch of really good ideas, including billboards. Absolutely. That was ten years ago. Mhmm. Alright. We’re we’re in such an interesting point of being able to really drive sales adoption and get real sales value. I mean, we’ve been doing ABM long enough, and it’s at that tipping point where I think the sales organization needs this desperately, and we have the ability to help them. And so anything I can contribute to that mission is job well done. Awesome. Thanks, Robert. Thank you. Appreciate it. You’ve been listening to revenue makers. Do you have a revenue project you were execute that had wild success, share your story with us at six cents dot com slash revenue, we might just ask you to come on the show. And if you don’t wanna miss the next episode, be sure to follow along on your favorite podcast app.